Menachos Daf 54 - Do We Measure Based on What Is or What Was?
Summary
- A sponsored שיעור on מנחות דף נג opens by laying out four main sugyos: preserving a perfect שיעור עשרון when adding שאור to the מנחה, whether *mei peirot* cause חימוץ with implications for מצה עשירה, whether מנחת חוטא is truly a מנחה חריבה without water or only without oil, and how swelling or shrinking affects the שיעור כביצה for טומאת אוכלין including whether changing back and forth creates דיחוי. The narrative moves through the משנה’s מחלוקת about how to create חמץ for שתי הלחם and לחמי תודה, the status of fruit-based leavening, the difficulty of קמיצה in מנחת חוטא, and multiple attempts to prove how שיעורים are assessed when an object’s size changes.
- A sponsored שיעור is dedicated by Dr. David Lander לעילוי נשמת his mother Golda bat Simcha עליה השלום, נשמתה שתהא בעליה. A second sponsorship is by Rina Septimus Goldstein and Mark Goldstein in memory of Moe Septimus on his יארצייט, הנשמה שתהא בעליה. A third is sponsored לעילוי נשמת Eliezer Noach ben Yechezkel Leon Kassafski on his second יארצייט, described as a scholar, למדן and a בעל חסד who נפטר at age 102, dedicated by his children Sam and Maxine Kassafski, Michael and Ziva Kassafski, and Judy and David Nathan. A fourth sponsorship is by Myra and Alan McGillner in honor of the birth of a granddaughter אורה יוכבד, born on פורים, to Shoshana and Yehuda Fein of רמת בית שמש, with a blessing for נחת and to be זוכה להכניסה לתורה לחופה ולמעשים טובים.
- A מחלוקת תנאים addresses how to actively create חמץ for שתי הלחם and לחמי תודה rather than letting dough become חמץ passively. Rabbi Meir holds עשור בודל לה מתוכן ומחמצן by taking from the קרבן itself to form the starter and then reintroducing it, while Rabbi Yehuda rejects that as אינו מן המובחר and requires bringing outside שאור into the measuring utensil. Rav Chisda explains the חכמים’ objection to Rabbi Yehuda as חסירה או יתירה because dense starter dough yields excess flour relative to the עשרון and thin starter dough yields insufficient flour.
- A challenge asks why density matters if the final measuring cup is still an עשרון, and Rav and Rav Yosef answer that measurement follows the item’s original state before swelling or shrinking rather than its current volume. A proposed solution suggests taking a small amount of flour from the עשרון, fermenting it externally more effectively, and then returning it to leaven the rest to combine the strengths of Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda. A גזירה rejects this method out of concern דילמא אתי לאתויי מעלמא, that people will bring חולין starter from outside.
- A ברייתא states אין מחמיצין בתפוחים, while an attributed dissenting view (either Rabbi Chanina ben Gamliel or, in Rav Kahana’s version, Rabbi Chanina ben Tradyon) allows leavening with תפוחים. A משנה in תרומות rules that crushed תרומה תפוח placed into dough that ferments renders the dough אסורה to a זר, and the Gemara initially frames this as fitting the view that *mei peirot* cause חימוץ. The Gemara answers that even according to the רבנן it can be אסור because while חמץ גמור does not form, חמץ נוקשה does form, creating sufficient impact to forbid the dough.
- A view attributed to the ירושלמי is presented as treating *mei peirot* as מחמיץ such that the mixture requires ביעור, and the ראב״ד is cited as classifying it as חמץ נוקשה. Tosafos cites Rabbeinu Tam that *mei peirot* alone are not מחמיץ at all, while *mei peirot* combined with מים do cause accelerated leavening. The Rambam (חמץ ומצה פרק ה הלכה ב) is cited as adopting the distinction that without מים there is no חימוץ, while later analysis notes the קרן אורה’s reading that the Rambam treats *mei peirot* with מים as חמץ גמור.
- Rabbi Ila states that no קמיצה is harder than that of מנחת חוטא because it lacks oil and the flour does not bind, making precise leveling with thumb and pinky difficult. Rabbi Yitzchak bar Avdimi rules that מנחת חוטא מגבל במים וכשרה, interpreting חריבה as חריבה משמן and not as dryness from all liquids. The Gemara concludes they do not argue about measuring by present size, but about the definition of חריבה: Rabbi Yitzchak bar Avdimi permits water, while Rabbi Ila treats it as חריבה מכל דבר.
- A משנה in עוקצין is brought concerning food that swells or shrinks relative to the כביצה threshold for טומאת אוכלין, and Amoraim split between assessing כמות שהן versus כמות שהיו. A ברייתא about meat that swells from less than a שיעור to a full שיעור states it is טהור לשעבר and טמא מכאן ולהבא, and the Gemara explains the forward-looking טומאה can be מדרבנן to avoid confusion. A further clause “וכן בפיגול וכן בנותר” is reinterpreted as referring to טומאת פיגול and טומאת נותר, aligning with the rabbinic decree that touching פיגול or נותר מטמא את הידיים.
- A second ברייתא about meat that shrinks from a full שיעור to פחות מכשיעור states it is טמא לשעבר and טהור מכאן ולהבא, and the Gemara reframes the debate as a case where an item had a שיעור, shrank, and then swelled again. One side is presented as holding יש דחוי באיסורא, while the other holds אין דחוי באיסורא. A משנה in טהרות rejects דיחוי in this context by ruling that items that shrink below their שיעור lose liability and טומאה, yet if later swollen by rain they again become טמאין and again incur liability for פיגול נותר וחלב.
- A proof attempt from separations on figs cites a rule that one can separate תאנים on גרוגרות by number and גרוגרות on תאנים by measurement. The Gemara initially treats this as a שיעור question and then answers that the case can be about תרומה גדולה, which lacks a fixed שיעור and can be taken בעין יפה. A later line stating that a father would take עשר גרוגרות for תשעים in the basket leads to the conclusion that the case is תרומת מעשר according to R' אלעזר בן גומל, who derives from “ונחשב לכם תרומתכם” that the verse speaks of two תרומות and that תרומת מעשר, like תרומה גדולה, may be taken by אומד and בעין יפה.
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