Menachos 8
Summary
- Today’s learning on מנחות דף ח opens by challenging whether רבי אלעזר really holds that a כלי שרת cannot sanctify דם that is פחות מכשיעור, and it pivots into a broad, recurring theme of the sugya: which halachos are learned מילתא ממילתא and which comparisons are rejected. The daf develops the machlokes between רבי יוחנן and רבי אלעזר about חביתי כהן גדול—whether they become קדוש when sanctified in halves—and it tests each shita against sources from לחם הפנים, סילוק בזיכין, and rules about חסרון before and after the key מתיר act. The gemara also analyzes the dispute of רב and רבי יוחנן about one who is מפריש חצי עישרון ודעתו להוסיף, and it expands into רב’s position that components of a מנחה (and even שמן and לבונה alone) can become קדוש without being fully assembled, versus רב חנינא’s insistence that nothing is sanctified unless all required parts are together. The presentation concludes with a later הערה about the nature of “מחשבה” in קדשים, attributing to רש״י and תוספות that פסול-thought must be verbalized while the משנה למלך reads the רמב״ם as treating pure thought as sufficient, and it links this to different פסוקים used as sources.
- Today’s דף is מנחות דף ח and the learning begins two lines from the bottom of דף ז עמוד ב at ומי אמר רבי אלעזר הכי. Today’s דף is being learned as a זכות רפואה שלמה for יצחק בן שפרה מירל חוה מרים בת מלכה פרדה and שלמה בן חיה לאה. Today’s דף is also being learned as a זכות for שרה בת סילביה that she find a זיווג הגון בקרוב.
- The gemara questions whether רבי אלעזר truly says that when a כהן is מקבל דם in a כלי שרת but the amount is פחות מכשיעור, the כלי שרת does not sanctify the דם. The assertion is that sanctification by כלי שרת requires the requisite שיעור, and without that minimum the דם is not מקודש. The daf opens by challenging that attribution: ומי אמר רבי אלעזר הכי.
- The gemara brings the case of חביתי כהן גדול, a daily מנחה of the כהן גדול whose שיעור is an עישרון and whose avodah is split מחציתה בבוקר ומחציתה בערב. רבי יוחנן holds אינה קדושה לחצאין, so half placed into a כלי שרת does not become קדוש as an independent act of sanctification. רבי אלעזר holds מתוך שקריבה לחצאין קדושה לחצאין, so since it is offered in halves, it can also be sanctified in halves.
- The gemara challenges רבי אלעזר’s consistency by proposing that if he holds less-than- שיעור דם cannot be sanctified in a כלי שרת, then the same should apply to חביתי כהן גדול, and he should learn מנחה from דם. The gemara rejects the move by establishing that רבי אלעזר learns מנחה ממנחה but does not learn מנחה מדם. The proof that רבי אלעזר does learn “thing from thing” within מנחות is his statement that מנחה שקמצה בהיכל כשרה שכן מצינו בסילוק בזיכין, deriving the permissibility of קמיצה in the היכל from the לחם הפנים procedure of removing the בזיכין in the היכל.
- A ברייתא rules that if the לחם הפנים breaks before the בזיכין are removed, the bread is פסול and the בזיכין are not offered, while if it breaks after removal, the bread is פסול but the בזיכין are offered. רב אלעזר interprets “פרקה” non-literally and rules that once the time arrives to remove the בזיכין, it is treated as though removal occurred even if not yet done. The gemara asks why time alone should change the status, comparing it to a מנחה that becomes חסרה before קמיצה, and it answers that by מנחה the קומץ is not yet defined until an act of קמיצה, whereas the בזיכין are already a defined object, making the time threshold meaningful. The gemara then challenges why offering the בזיכין is allowed after the break, comparing it to שיריים שחסרו בין קמיצה להקטרה, and it answers that רב אלעזר follows the opinion that in that מנחה case one may still be מקטיר the קומץ.
- The gemara explains רבי יוחנן’s source from the pasuk describing חביתי כהן גדול: it first calls it “מנחה תמיד” and then says “מחציתה בבוקר ומחציתה בערב,” implying “bring a complete מנחה and then split it.” Two ברייתות state that חביתי כהן גדול do not come as halves but rather one brings a full עישרון and then divides, and that “מחציתה” implies half of a whole rather than two independent halves brought separately. The gemara initially answers that these instructions are למצוה, but it is challenged from the word חק/חוקה, which indicates לעיכובה. The gemara answers that the requirement is specifically to bring a full amount מביתו, while sanctification in halves can still be valid according to רבי אלעזר.
- A separate אמוראים’ dispute states that if one is מפריש חצי עישרון of a מנחה with דעתו להוסיף, רב says it is not קדוש while רבי יוחנן says it is קדוש. The gemara asks how רבי יוחנן can allow this if he holds חביתי כהן גדול are not קדוש לחצאין, and it rejects the idea that he avoids learning מילתא ממילתא by citing רבי יוחנן’s ruling that שלמים ששחטם בהיכל כשרים with the reasoning ולא יהא טפל חמור מן העיקר, which is taken as learning היכל from עזרה. The gemara resolves that דעתו להוסיף is different, and it supports this by a ברייתא on “מלאים” teaching that sanctification requires “שלמים” only when there is no intent to add, but when דעתו להוסיף ראשון ראשון קדוש.
- The gemara asks which side רב takes in the dispute about חביתי כהן גדול and concludes that רב must align with רבי יוחנן that אינה קדושה לחצאין, because otherwise his ruling about חצי עישרון ודעתו להוסיף would be inconsistent given his readiness to learn מילתא ממילתא. The gemara supports that רב learns across cases by citing his view that a מנחה becomes קדוש even without שמן, without לבונה, or without both, each justified by parallels to other מנחות such as לחם הפנים, מנחת נסכים, and מנחת חוטא.
- Rav teaches that a מנחה can become קדוש without its required שמן, without its required לבונה, or without both, and that שמן and לבונה themselves can each become קדוש independently, supported by לוג שמן של מצורע for oil and לבונה הבאה בבזיכין for frankincense. רב חנינא disagrees and holds that in מנחות requiring שמן and לבונה, no component is sanctified unless all are together in the כלי. The gemara challenges רב חנינא by asking why the עישרון measure was anointed if flour alone cannot be sanctified, and it answers that it is needed for מנחת חוטא; it similarly explains the anointing of the לוג as needed for לוג של מצורע.
- A משנה states that כלי הלח sanctify liquids and dry measures sanctify dry goods, and that each does not sanctify the other. שמואל qualifies that this limitation applies to measuring vessels, but מזרקות sanctify even dry substances, deriving it from the נשיאים’s korban text describing a מזרק filled with סולת בלולה בשמן. The gemara addresses the objection that this מנחה is “wet” by answering either that the proof concerns the dry portion within it or that relative to blood it is treated as “dry.” The gemara concludes that שמואל agrees with רב’s broader concept that כלי can sanctify items even when they are not in their final, fully “fit” form for that כלי.
- The gemara returns to רבי אלעזר’s statement that מנחה שקמצה בהיכל כשרה שכן מצינו בסילוק בזיכין. רב ירמיה challenges from “וקמץ משם,” explaining it as requiring קמיצה from a place where a זר can stand in the עזרה, which seems to exclude the היכל. The gemara answers that “ממקום שרגלי העזרה עומדות” comes to validate the entire עזרה for קמיצה and to exclude a mistaken requirement that קמיצה be restricted to a specific location such as קרן דרומית מערבית by analogy to הגשה, rather than to invalidate the היכל.
- A concluding הערה cites רש״י in מנחות and זבחים that “מחשבה” that invalidates קדשים requires הוצאת דיבור בפה, and it cites תוספות in multiple מסכתות as agreeing that כל מחשבה דקדשים must be spoken aloud. The משנה למלך on הלכות פסולי המוקדשים reads the רמב״ם as implying that these פסול מחשבות work even without verbalization, through thought alone. The הערה links this divergence to two scriptural sources: “לא יחשב” as used by רבי ינאי in זבחים as a מקור framed around מחשבה, and “לא תזבח… כל דבר רע” as brought in the ספרי and quoted by רש״י as אזהרה למפגל בקדשים על ידי דיבור, and it presents the split as rooted in whether the core איסור is derived from the מחשבה-oriented source or the דיבור-oriented source.
Previous Page
Next Page
Daf Images are property of Vagshal and may not be reproduced.
Suggestions